Yesterday was arguably the worst United performance I've ever seen. There have been games in the past where we've gone 1, 2 even 3 goals down, but we've ALWAYS come back to either get something out of the game or at least given it our all. It's just NOT United to concede goals left right and centre in the way we did.
It reminded me of Chelsea a bit, how they sometimes end up frustrated and down to 10 men when things aren't going their way, United normally have a much better mentality and I think this came down to Sir Alex yesterday.
Firstly, the sending off. If Evans had not got sent off there is no chance we'd have conceded 6 goals, it just wouldn't have happened. However, I still think City would have won the game or at least I don't think we'd have won. This is the first point I want to make:
When a team goes down to 10 men, especially in a huge derby game where your captain is injured and in the stands, you look to your manager for guidance:
Who fills in for the centre back? What formation do we play from then on? Do we carry on attacking full speed or do we try and keep our shape and attack when possible?
Even Chelsea, granted they were playing QPR did very well with 9 men vs 11.
The point is, did SAF tell his players what to do? This may seem stupid but the players didn't look like they knew what they were doing, and if they were told to attack, this is bad management because it was obvious we'd get humiliated and concede a few counter attack goals.
Yes it's great that we're trying to attack and score, but there are ways to go about this and the way we tried to was just awful.
My second point is the selection of Darren Fletcher, I honestly can't understand it. He scored a tremendous goal and fair play to him for that, but when you fail to do your job in midfield for 90 minutes, so what if you score a consolation goal? Look at David Luiz, he looks brilliant bombing forward, but can't really defend it seems so what is the point? Even the Liverpool game, we were pretty poor and that is another recent big game that Fletcher has started. He is out of form, has not been the same since the 09/10 season and should not be starting. This for me again comes down to Sir Alex.
The alternative argument is that we really didn't have anyone else, we don't exactly have Fabregas on our bench. Well fine, but this is also the fault of the manager for failing to invest. Either way our midfield isn't good enough as it is, so starting out of form players in big games is just suicidal. By the way is Carrick injured?
I hope I don't sound knee-jerk, those who know me will know that I'm not one to slate SAF and he is the greatest thing ever to happen to United. He is also not immune to criticism and yesterday his decisions were questionable in my opinion. Thoughts?
1: SAF said that we should have defended after the score was 4-1, my point is why is he telling that after the game instead of telling the players as soon as we conceded the 4th goal.
2: We were tactically naive when we went down to 10 men. Its common sense that we had to sit back and just defend till the 75-80th min and try to keep the score at 1-0, because the longer it would have remained 1-0 we would still be in it; then we could through caution to the wind for the last 10 mins with the crowd backing us.
3: Of what use is Mike Phelan - Quieroz, Mclaren, Kidd were all great no. 2s and would have passed on some tactical advise to Fergie, where as he just sits there.
4: It has been clearly evident that Fletcher / anderson duo don't work in midfield, but still we continue to persist with them.
5: Evra has been poor since his world cup debacle, i don't think he is fit to wear the armband. He should have used his experience when we were trailing instead he went missing higher up the pitch and Welbeck and Rooney had to cover for him at time. Fletcher or Rooney should have captained the side, or even Rio.
Shades, are you ok? Was the earthquake near you?
Regarding Ferguson, of course he has to take some of the blame. I'm shocked the omission of Vidic & Carrick hasn't been looked into further has I don't think either are injured.
There is only so much a manager can communicate... especially in the last minutes of a game... you think it is easy to shout over to Evra? I'm sure their is a plan A, B, C, D etc for all types of in game events that are worked out before the match... and that lies with the players to execute.
As for Fletcher... not sure what he did that was any worse than the rest... in fact, I think he looked somewhere close to his best before the red card... As tough as it was, I rewatched the match on MUTV and thought he was fine.
Ferguson still has to take the blame for a lot of it. The midfield combination of Fletcher and Anderson hasn't been working, yet Carrick wasn't even in the squad.
Vidic was left out and apparently he is fit too, we can't blame Evra for these things.
The frequent and often vast changes in personnel, sometimes for the worse, have unsettled the team and especially the defence. Though some of this is forced, some of it isn't. We know that Nani and Young have had some poor recent games at getting back to help full back and yet they both start.
One with Valencia would have been safer, or perhaps we could have gone even more conservative.
Not sure how you have formed your opinion on Fletcher's performance because he was utterly horrid. As the senior member of the midfield four he held the lot back, darting everywhere without a moments thought. He dived in too quick time and again and people just waltzed past him. It's not shock that when he plays the defence looks more exposed.
Ifs, buts and maybe though...the players you suggest could have knocks, a poor weeks training, tired from romania etc. On paper, their left side was there for the taking... I think 99.99% of UTD fans would chose Nani over Valencia.
He choose a team that should have been good enough, and upto the red card, we held our own... Fletcher included.... I guess people just read the game differently, I thought he was breaking up alot of play and getting the ball about. I watched it on tv, maybe it was different at the match
The squad would have had instructions to carry out in certain events though.... sometimes additional messages will get relayed, but it is not always possible. Fletcher was quickly moved to RB, but we needed a goal, so had to carry on attacking and got exposed. The last 5-10 minutes though... god knows what happened. Sometimes you have to just bow down to the opposition, rather than looking for scapegoats.
Sorry guys for not being on here. I have been very depressed about something personal. Not football related and to be honest, I did not even care we lost 6.1. So I have no anger, which makes me sad. I should be raving and screaming and smashing things. But I am not
But anyways, it was a terrible result and we were very naive. Sir Alex can be to blame, to play Fletcher-Ando again, is stupid. And meant we were going to lose. However, we as fans need not panic. This team is a transitional team and we may have a similar season to 05/06. City for me look solid for the title.
We must win and lose some and City look very complete. Season is long of course but with us losing a lot of experience this year, it was always going to tell. I think we may need to change things up a bit. Fletcher should not be anywhere near the 11! We need Vidic back and I even think we may need Berbatov back. We need some added creativity and a player who can hold the ball well.
It's not ifs. buts and maybes, I've been saying it for some time. We're changing huge chunks of the team from week to week with no apparent focus on how the players will tactically suit that game.
We were ok until they scored, then they got some confidence and went through it, our central area was abysmal and the the wide area didn't save this time but made it worse.
We can't look at the game yesterday and go 'well shit happens', I was there and in all my years of going to Old Trafford I cannot remember a time when the team was such a pile of shit. This isn't one big accident that has nothing to do with Ferguson, that's juts silly.
I'm not saying we don't need him but we have to say when he does something bizarre, the Liverpool team was bizarre and we got out of that just, yesterday was bizarre.
you are missing my point though.... we, me, you, 99.9999999% of the world... have no idea what has taken place during training that week or other weeks where we have been left scratching our heads.
therefore, it IS ifs, buts and maybe. What seems simple to you or me is clearly not always that simple, otherwise we would all be making millions as football managers.